Sagar's Zombies of the Ages

[spurn]

Native American focus across a period of time. Spectrum of attention from Inuit to general "Plains" Native Americans.

Oh nice, there is an art style now...

[dabu]

These are great, but I'm wondering if stylistically, they are too detailed and realistic for what Tall Chair wants...

Can you do some more cartoony line drawn versions? I would expect these for more of a doom 3 style high poly normal mapped bells and whistles approach....

You could redo the underlying shape and then do a "dress me up" version where you simply add the props to delineate the different types...

beautiful concepts btw, I dig!

[spurn]

yea did these before i saw the post, molding won't be hard

[DrEvizan]

these are super pretty. I don't know which I like the most, I'd really like to see a more stylized version of the concept up and along with the detail going down, also consider taking the amount of costume pieces and props down to the essentials just to make it readable from a distance

[dabu]

I should add, Doug is art lead on this for Tall Chair, so heed his words...

[Scott_TallChair]

Man, these concepts look great!

The only problem is they are waaay beyond the scope for the game we're looking at using these for. I understand that you did these before the art style was posted, so no worries - it's obviously not an issue of ability, just style.

Yeah, we're going for a cartoon look on this one, silly and fun with exaggerated forms. We should have a model from the game up next week for you guys to use as an example.

One more thing that I want to make mention of - we're not going to be using an alpha channel for these zombies (too resource expensive for this game), so those feathers are going to have to be modeled.

These are great concepts, good work here. I'd like to see them simplified, with some exaggeration for comedic effect.

[spurn]

NO ALPHAS?!!??!?! WAHHHHHHHHHGGGGG

yea will be posting some redesigns today/tomorrow. i did these initial ones for idea's sake, and then scaling back for actual execution.

thanks for all the comments, and the redesign is in progress!

[spurn]

two redesigns

[spurn]

another redesign after more input

[bmilos420]

I like this version the best. The character is about 4 to 5 heads tall, the color palette is saturated, and the details have been simplified.

Can't wait to see the other ideas....

[Scott_TallChair]

Nice work here!

The last one (with the missing arm) is the closest stylistically to where we are going. Now that we have a base model and theme to go with, I'd like to see 3-4 variants on this guy - perhaps borrowing tris from the spear and head dress to allow for his other arm, and playing with different levels of decay to allow for the variants to fall within the fairly tight 1k tri budget.

Nice so far...

[DrEvizan]

I like it a lot. I would however think about color as it will pertain to the game. While we do want to preserve a certain amount of grittiness, the scheme could be a little brighter, or a least offer more contrast, so that from a distance, we can tell how awesome this guy really is.

[spurn]

do you mean saturated with some color variant within each piece (ie: skin, clothing etc) like this?

i also included a modeling test. 973 tris with everything you see. the arms are fairly long for a good slouch and arm hang, though i could shorten them a little (hmmm just realized the torso needs that loop to go lower, but anyhoo...)

[dabu]

great start, I would make his hands more posed, and move the bast of the thumb down and around a bit, hands feel stiff and flat...

[DrEvizan]

I second that. We're not going to have the joint budget to rig the hands with more that a single bone. Whatever pose you put the hands in will be pretty much set in stone. The colors are looking better - although what I was talking about had more to do with value than color. Having light skin and dark accessories (or vise versa) will help his geometry pop

[spurn]

ah okay i understand now Doug, thanks, I'll work on that more over the weekend.

base orthos here

[spurn]

another pass, this a Chief model - with one lopped arm - which sits at 923 tris
a Chief with one exposed forearm and one normal arm sits at 1005 tris - could be brought down by taking out two feathers or something
an original base sits at 902 tris
an original base with exposed forearms sits at 928 tris

[bmilos420]

This looks sweet, 923 is a good number I suppose since it saves them a few tris....

Just out of curiosity, how did you get your text to change color in your post?

[spurn]

yea 923 allows for variation customizing with secondary costumes

colors are just in the customizing tools above your text box when making a post. you can also use HTML or CODE tags. most of the forums these days have them.

color variants on the Chief

[Scott_TallChair]

The model is looking great! At this point, I'd check on a few things as you prepare to go on to Unwrap and Texture:

1. Are all the verts merged? You be surprised how often this is not the case. A quick way to check is to run a smooth filter over your model (both Maya and Max have their version of this) - any holes that appear are 99% of the time caused by verts that aren't merged. Of course, after you've found them, undo the smooth.

2. Are all the normals facing out?
3. Is the model a single mesh?
4. Will your edge loops support deformations? For example - are there sufficient edge loops in the shoulders, elbows, knees, and neck? You can even toss a quick rig in there and bend all the bendy parts to check.
5. Is there a chance that the model will have some visible hole at some angles? Sometimes this is okay, for instance in some cases we don't necessarily need to have geometry on the bottom of a character's feet - but these zombies will have death animations, so we need to make sure that they still look solid even when they're lying on the ground. Check the model from every angle, if there's a particular angle that reveals a noticeable hole, you'll want to fix that before you unwrap and texture.

6. Enable Backface culling (or turn off 2-sided textures if you're in Max) and check to make sure that your model is still working. Problem areas are usually clothing items (such as loincloths), and props (in your case, the feathers are a candidate for this - the model should look best from the front view, but maybe think about using up some of your bonus tri budget to add a few feathers facing the back, so if the model turns it's head his headdress doesn't dissappear).

7. As always, check for non-manifold geometry.
8. Also, make sure there is no internal geometry.

Those last two go without saying for the most part, but you'd be surprised how often you get burned by the one thing you didn't mention...

Looking good man - if all of the above checks out to your satisfaction then you get to go on to the fun part - texturing!

[DrEvizan]

I like these a bunch. Particularly the blue-skinned one. Of course, adjustments on base colors can always be made afterwards, But I say: GO

[spurn]

some progress. need to work on making the faces a little different but here are some varying ideas of warriors, a shaman, and a chief. staying away from designs like the Inuits to keep the deformations simpler and not HAVE to use 1000 tris

what's your say on rigid bodies like bones vs. deforming them, particular examples are the exposed knee and exposed spine. right now the knee is a composed of separate objects, and the spine has 3 vertebrae which are currently merged. okay to make them as separate vertebrae, or keep them merged and let them deform?
(would think it's no problemo, but figured to ask)

[spurn]

1000 tris, can probably take a few more out of his back, but wouldn't change the count by much

[FionnaT]

nice! your zombie concepts are really coming alive now

[Scott_TallChair]

These are looking great! I say proceed to texture.

[spurn]

progress on one of the warriors. gunna end up doing unique maps for each. hopefully get more progress going... 2 weeks till deadline!? /wrists

too much detail in the face? trying to gauge this "simple" style haha :\

[LMP]

I made a scale thing based on the size of the phone's res to see how it would look at various sizes on an iphone res...

[spurn]

*update below*

hey thanks :D
yea toyed with it in Maya but not knowing the full extent of the camera proximity to the models, i figure detailing would e good (not extensively over the cowboy that was shown)

just not sure how far to go, considering some of the other models on here. will keep going and see how this fares

[spurn]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhh

so i revamped after rendering too much, this has clouds over it, but no shadows under the clothes and no "gore" other than the blood.

how far should we take rot?

[bmilos420]

great texture this is really cool. Do you know if we can we use blood in this game? if so how much gore?

[spurn]

haha yea good question. i'd almost prefer this over "rot" so that the form doesn't get overwhelmed when you're zoomed out, but we shall see!

[Scott_TallChair]

Nice work here Sagar - these turned out great!

[dabu]

only thing I would suggest is making it look like an indian, sort of like a generic zombie at the moment.

great texture.

[spurn]

here's a wolf shaman

[dabu]

great values, I would outline the bottom of the feet with dark lines...

[Scott_TallChair]

Shaman looks great!

For the zombie above, if you could add a feather or two, a headband, or some other form of leather jewelry/tools (perhaps a knife sheaf on his leg - knife still in but the zombie is too stupid to use it?) i think that would tie it in with the local tribe a little better.

[spurn]

added some hair too, thanks for the tips, and the black line additions definitely helped keep the lower legs in focus

[spurn]

there we go

edit: mini added (2nd thumbnail)

[dabu]

great color on these, Sager. Can you post a shot of them at game size? About an inch tall on the screen...

[bmilos420]

These came out really clean. I like the shaman's costume.